Madrasi Chicks – Hot or Not?

To answer that question, I don’t know. Honestly, anything that cannot be shown as statistically significant and is based on anecdotal evidence doesn’t convince me. Saket’s post on his disappointment on “India’s Hottest College Chick Contest” profiles set the proverbial ball rolling. I had expressed my reservations on such a contest earlier. Personally, I was disappointed to read his opinions which were not only distasteful to South Indians but also insulting to women in general. However, I have had a tough time getting around to understanding the concept of free speech but now that I am convinced, there is no greater freedom. In that regard, Saket is entitled to his opinion because he clearly uses his blog as his pulpit. Everyone does. Even the bloggers you usually don’t agree with. Heck, I do.

But the act of blogging that entitles you to your opinion and broadcasts them to the world and gets compliments for making a positive difference in someone’s life, also leaves you open to criticism for stepping on someone else’s toes. The best feature of free speech is that you have to live with its consequences. Abashedly saying what you believe in also lets others in your private thoughts which otherwise could be subjected to the censor scissors in your head. Someone wise once advised me, think twice and then shut up.

Saket’s words may have effectively sealed his chances with any South Indian women he might have hoped to woo or for that matter, all the women who might take offense to his words. Are his words racist? That is subjective although I think they are but then as I said, Saket will bear its consequences. Mel Gibson got drunk and abused the Jews and now in an industry dominated by Jews, no one will touch him with a barge pole. At least he was drunk. Michael ‘Kramer’ Richards had to go on air and publicly apologize after his outburst at the comedy club. In both cases, the people making offensive remarks suffered the most.

I am sure Saket understands that in the age of Google, your written (or rather typed) words are almost permanent. Being an ex-recruiter, he knows that any employer worth his salt will definitely do a Google search. If the post in question pops up, then he might have to answer some tough questions or might not even get a chance to explain. If blogging liberates you to expressing your thoughts, it also binds you by making you face the consequences of your words. As a friend and fellow blogger, I hope Saket understands these perils. What he chooses to say or do is of course, his prerogative. Being a libertarian, I am sure he understands this advice redundant. There are plenty of others who will just sit back and watch the tamasha because this is a voyeuristic world. One person’s discomfort is the other’s reality TV.

Quite a few people have emailed me asking me to take a second look at Saket’s role in DesiPundit. For the umpteenth time, DesiPundit is a filter-blog comprised of loosely-connected bloggers who have personal opinions and are even encouraged to voice them while linking to posts. I am sure the contributors understand that they are responsible for their words and that it helps the readers to understand them better, positively or negatively. DesiPundit does not condone sexist or racial remarks but we also understand that Saket is completely and entirely entitled to any opinions on his personal blog. We have always been an individualistic, diverse, and opinionated bunch of bloggers and I hope we stay that way (downside is, we get criticized by everyone). So I find the question to examine his role in DesiPundit redundant.

Although I don’t agree with his opinions, I stand by his right to express them. DesiPundit does not take a united stand on personal opinions and each contributor is free to argue for and against his or her opinions. Every individual essays multiple roles in the society. You cannot expect each organization (I’m using this term loosely) that an individual associates with to monitor his or her behavior. Too much Big Brother fears there. The organization expects the individuals to personally assess the weight of their actions or words and act as they deem fit. And yup, saying yet again consequences are theirs too.

As Neha says on a post linked on DesiPundit, feel free to flame him if you strongly resent his words. He has an open comments system on his blog and I bet he welcomes comments. In fact, I encourage you to and it might even give Saket an opportunity to explain (or dig deeper). At the same time, if you are commenting on his looks, you are doing the same mistake that you are accusing him of. Just as Saket is responsible for his words, you will also be equally responsible for the reaction you choose to offer; baaki aap ki marzee. Personally, I found Hawkeye’s post on personal perceptions for the opinions you offer or your worldview on target:

It is my theory that people stereotype and do all of the above to increase their sense of self-worth. Human beings are afflicted with the self-esteem problem. They want to feel good about themselves and they would like to, more often than not, reassure themselves that they are doing much better than their peers. It could be any peer. Someone in Antarctica is as good a comparison as the guy next door. This is why Indians who migrate to western countries look down upon Indians who stayed back, Indians who stay back suddenly use patriotism to look down upon Indians who migrate…

Trust me, after a while all this would be forgotten except by those who will bear the consequences.


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  • http://www.retributions.wordpress.com confused

    Pat,

    Good post. As you said, every individual is responsible for what he says. Saket takes full responsibility for his comments and of course, people have the right to criticize him and take offense.

    About DP, I agree with you entirely-DP should be kept aside from personal blogging.

  • http://uberdesi.com Santosh

    I like the tags for your post “blogging, free speech, accountability”.
    I hope one day Saket wakes up to find his new boss is a Madrasi woman :-)

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Confused, thanks. If every blogger understood this, the blogs-MSM argument would be moot. But the wild uncontrolled nature of blogs gives them its flavor. And there is always a learning curve.

    Santosh, heh. That would be sweet revenge for the ‘Madrasi’ women, won’t it? Especially if she has read the post.

  • Pingback: Is Saket Racist? « Life is a street car named Desire

  • http://scientificbellows.wordpress.com Kaushik

    a long time reader who for most part dwells in silence :-)
    Free speech is indeed an extremely convoluted road. I’m starting to wonder about the nature of this word associated with the press especially if one thinks back to the whole flare up over the ‘cartoon’ issue. Maybe sometimes, just sometimes, free speech is slightly overrated? I dont know…do u have a take on this?

  • http://www.retributions.wordpress.com confused

    Kaushik,

    Free speech is not overrated-it is the most important tool in the hand of the individual. Free speech also gives you the right to feel offended, as long you respect his right to speak his mind.

  • Pingback: DesiPundit » Archives » Vulturo triggers an extended debate on racism (Desi style)

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Kaushik, as Confused pointed out, it is one of the most important tool in a free society. Admittedly it can be a difficult concept to wrap your head around. I admit being initially troubled by the extents of free speech but now am convinced.

    As long as they are not illegal, reactions and condemnation to any speech you disagree with is also permitted. For e.g. this comment on Great Bong’s blog calls for ‘killing the bastard’ Now tell me, how is that acceptable compared to even the harshest words? The hypocrisy of such people is astounding.

    The ‘slippery slope’ argument is often used while defending free speech because if we allow for censoring some kinds of speeches, there is no stopping to what else can be censored depending upon who is in power. You wouldn’t want your words to be acceptable one day and ‘to be jailed for’ the next, right?

  • http://scientificbellows.wordpress.com Kaushik

    :) ok I didnt know ‘slippery slope’ was the name given to that kind of a stand. Anyways my comment has very little to do with Saket’s post but then again its a microcosm of how people look at the press in general. I understand that it might be very hard to draw a line somewhere but then again, I remember something I heard once:
    “It is completely arbitrary where you draw the line, but it is not arbitrary that you draw the line” Of course its easy to do this in the case of speed limits but not so much in an unquantifiable area like ‘press free speech”. I guess ultimately thats what makes for a ‘responsible press/induvidual’ I’m a complete go go for free speech but its something who’s meaning I have wrestled with for a long time now.

  • http://scientificbellows.wordpress.com Kaushik

    Sorry, It almost seems like spamming this place but I really like the tone of the discussion over in this blog compared to others that I have been reading. People are amazingly emotional. I think Saket must have mixed emtions at this point! Blog counter ticking but otherwise being vilified. People commenting on his blog are excercising their right of speech to the fullest!

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Kaushik, feel free to comment frequently. All this blog lacks is enough comments (wasn’t so not so long ago) :) Yup, commenters on his blog are exercising free speech too but by my logic, it reflects more on them than on Saket. The way you choose to react tells a lot about you, right? The ‘SEO’ in Saket must love the hits and trackbacks though.

    Getting back to your question of setting limits, the subsequent question is who sets the limits and what stops them from exercising their own moral or ideological justification for enforcing such a limit. E.g. no morning-after pills to women by conservative pharmacists. The speed limit example may not be suitable as there is documented proof that higher speeds lead to accidents that kill innocent people who may not have been speeding. If it had killed only the perpetrator, the case wouldn’t have been as solid e.g. wearing helmets or even seat belts.

    I believe in personal censorship i.e. you are the best person to judge what you should say. You are also free not to voice your opinion if you feel it might bring bodily harm on you (can seek polic protection, if you choose to trust). And it is assumed if you choose to say something, you are aware of its consequences i.e. being vilified by people who are offended.

  • http://prabhukrish.net Prabhu

    Patrix,
    Do you think one can exercise his/her freedom of speech and say ‘People who find Madrasi chicks ugly, say so because they, are impotent?’ :)

  • Pingback: uber desi dot com » Blog Archive » Madrasigate: Blogging and the Desi Psyche

  • http://alpha-2.blogspot.com alpha

    Patty, comon man…there was your chance and you blew it with all us madrasi chicks…tsk tsk tera kya hoga? Who cares about Saket anyway.

  • http://govar.blogspot.com Govar

    Please do not make any efforts to cover up the whole thing by bringing this under the purview of ‘freedom of speech’.

    Having an ‘opinion’ and ‘standing by freedom of speech’ is all fine statements that could earn one brownie points amongst a diplomatic audience. This is irresponsibility, and nothing else.

  • http://gratisgab.blogspot.com Gabby

    Ahem, looks like this Saket person never met the right kind of South Indians. Or wait, why would the right kind of South Indians hang with him in the first place?

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Prabhu, in fact you can but that wouldn’t make it necessarily true, would it? Just like Saket saying those things about Madrasi women doesn’t make it true or right.

    Alpha, Exactly re…Only if Saket had met you he wouldn’t have said that about Madrasi chicks :) And if you didn’t get it, I don’t consider Madrasi chicks to be ugly…have seen quite a few hot ones *wink*

    Govar, in fact I am not condoning his words and I completely disagree with him. And you are right, Saket may have lost credibility with a major portion of the desi blogosphere by saying what he said. Like I said, irrespective of freedom of speech, that is the consequence of your words.

    Gabby, …the ‘right kind’ of South Indians stop blogging after a while :)

  • http://gratisgab.blogspot.com Gabby

    Yes Trixy, but what’s that got to do with “hotness” ? :)

    maybe it is time to jump into the Orkut wagon? or no, alpha proves all those points for the rest of us.

    And oh, old pic with laptop was WAAYYY cooler.

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Gabby, or I should have said the ‘hot’ kind stop blogging. Come back, re…Maharaja must be old enough now :) Thankfully, we see a spurt of resurgence occasionally (from others thanks to the cops). And I guess, I should put up a blank profile picture. Now, that would be uber cool. Unless you are being a nerdie and any picture with a laptop is cool for you.

  • http://gratisgab.blogspot.com Gabby

    Oh that reminds me, do I have a cop story for you!
    This one’s begging to be blogged…so *sigh*, soon.

    no dufus, not a nerdie, the old one was characteristic…unlike the usual matrimonial-type ones. the nerds with their laptops, the monkey’s swinging from the tree….everything is in it’s right place…you get the idea.

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Gabby, Aaaaah! now I get it…don’t worry, I’ll try to dig up yet another uncharacteristic photo…it might just end up shocking some of my old friends who are also on Orkut and aren’t used to this…err…uncharacteristic side.

    And it looks like all ‘Madrasis’ (I’ll stop after this post is done with) have a cop story to tell. Come on, spill the beans!

  • http://alpha-2.blogspot.com alpha

    Gabby, I am getting a vague feeling of being stalked (Orkut and blogs). well as long as we Madrasi gaaals find each other hot enough to stalk, we are going to be alright. Patty, yes change back to laptop one…not the one you took in a strip club with that madrasi chick on your lap. Or shud we have this conversation elsewhere…but then spamming Patty has always been a fav passtime.

    Oh well, I see this Saket thing is going out of control. What joy! Stop giving the chap too much bhaav re or else Rohan Pinto’s fame might go down a notch and we would just hate that.

    I mean what he said is quite creepy, but its something that 90 percent of the people I know would say it in some form or the other when they are trying to be cool. It could happen to any one of us in a weak moment. He just didnt use the right words. What freaks me out is with all this name calling in the internet, he’s probably a goner what with him using his real name and all.

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Alpha, secretly I must admit I love all the comment spam. Just to get a tad senti here, I was looking at the top two posts according to no.of comments, these two posts popped up. There are hardly 4-5 people in there but multiple comments. What fun!Gosh, I miss those days…even your nemesis Jivha!

    Now I feel sorry for Saket. Perhaps he should have stuck to the Vulturo bit…now I thank my stars for thinking up of Patrix :) But then I am hardly even volatile. We all have our secret prejudices but we just keep them to ourselves. Probably his biggest mistake was to air them out aloud on his blog. Probably being a DesiPundit contributor brought out the DP haters as well.

  • http://hawkeyeview.blogspot.com Hawkeye

    Hi Patrix,

    nice post and thanks for the mention. I was out of action for the last day and half (probably will write a post on it) so missed all the action on DP and everywhere else.

    I havent read Vulturo’s new post yet. Not that I have any decision making authority, But as an outsider I agree with your stand that what vulturo says in his personal blog is his business and shouldnt affect his standing with DP. I’ll save my reasons for some other day.

  • http://www.retributions.wordpress.com confused

    Patty, yes change back to laptop one…not the one you took in a strip club with that madrasi chick on your lap.

    Aha! Now, that makes sense.

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Hawkeye, it is my pleasure to read a sane opinion in the crass reactions that are been thrown around in the name of outrage. If you check the comments on his latest post, they are far worse than what he said. Of course, the cowards are anonymous. Hope to read more from you.

    Confused, now I wouldn’t put any picture that shows Alpha in a compromising position :) Humare bhi kuch ussool hai.

  • http://alpha-2.blogspot.com alpha

    awwww, stop reminding of the good olden days of compromising poses and all…it brings tears in my eyes. I enjoyed going through the comments…was I that funny? darn…must have been those hormonal pills. Talking of ussool and such, I did notice the two posts that you decided to share were posts that were all about you without much spamming by me…now that is what Gabby was calling characteristic.

    it was a historic moment and it is freaky to know that you chose yogu’s ipatrix over my popatrix…that does it! not spamming you ever again..katti!

    confused, digressing are we?

  • http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix

    Alpha, actually I lost all the comments on Rediff…those were the best! But yeah you were that funny…zindagi ki zimedaari ne tumko maamuli bana diya hai (wah! kya dialogue hai)I admit your popatrix was cool but I would never have heard the end of it. Actually, someone else beat Yogu to the iPatrix bit just by a few hours.

  • http://gratisgab.blogspot.com Gabby

    oh i’m alright. not feeling left out one bit. don’t worry about me.

    (gawd trixy’s senti-mood can be infectious?)

  • http://alpha-2.blogspot.com alpha

    patty, after gabby is thru reading it (which might have already happened) mera previous comment nikaal de..varna uss aurath ka wrath might be inflicted on your site…mera kuch nahin..i warned you.

    it feels so good to keep patty in suspense.

  • http://yogustus.blogspot.com Yogustus

    baccha log…what is all this khus puss withou me!?! i wanna join the party too! damn…i miss them good old days when i could abuse anyone of any race. now saala it looks like i’ll get death threats if i even say pinochio had a long nose. i am sure there is caprenter’s union somewhere where a fatwa will be issued in my name to reduce the size of my nose. actually, that would be a good thing…surgery ka paisa bach jayega.

    anyway, was getting bored doing homework so decided to hop around. good to see that all of you are still alive.

    chal bey, rock on dude…and make papa proud.

  • Hmmm

    I think this comment takes the cake. Its time this guy gets off Desipundit. Now he is being sexually abusive to a commentor who was as civil as possible …

    http://www.vulturo.com/2007/02/bunkdcom-disappoints/#comment-11878

  • http://riotofreasons.blogspot.com Riot

    Patrix,

    I know I am really late. I also know that “umpteen” people before me have said this, but I will say it again… Saket needs to go. Chuck him out of Desipundit.

    Listen to this piece of self righteous crap from his follow up post

    “If there is something to be fought against, I guess people who feel strongly about it should fight against the standards of fairness which are programmed into into our collective brains.”

    He is propagating this vicious, so called “programming”.

    India is a diverse country. There are a million ways people can be dissected. It is bad enough that our politicians do it. To see an educated (questionable) person like Saket do it, is just pathetic.