Chinese Women Gymnasts underage?

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Yesterday, Chinese women gymnasts joined their male counterparts in winning the team gymnastics gold. The minimum age for gymnasts in the Olympics is 16 but watching the Chinese girls (can’t really think of them as women), you would be hard pressed to believe that they meet the eligibility criteria. Following their amazing display at the Games, other countries mainly United States have been murmuring that they may not be 16 and the Chinese may have cheated to get them in. Although I don’t entirely trust the Chinese, I don’t believe the accusations deserve any merit merely on the grounds that “they don’t look 16″.

Women or Girls?

Why does it help to have younger women gymnasts? Simply because they are more flexible hence easier to train and are able to do more difficult routines. Also, younger gymnasts tend to feel less pressured at international competitions as compared to their older counterparts who can choke. Additionally women gymnastics focuses on balance and poise rather than strength as is the case in mens’ gymnastics (rings, pommel horse, etc). So typically, a gymnasts career is virtually over when she reaches 20.

Physically on an average, Asians are smaller in size and weight compared to their western counterparts. Just compare the high school students in India, Japan, or China to their counterparts in the U.S. and you’ll know what I’m talking about. So all the Chinese have to do is to look for the smallest kids in their age group in China and put them through their famed gymnastics program. Naturally, compared to the other gymnasts, these girls will look much smaller probably because they are. But age-wise, they may not be. Statements like:

“Oh, come on, she was just in diapers and everyone could see that, just like some of the Chinese girls are now,” Karolyi said. “If you look close, you can see they still have their baby teeth. Little tiny teeth!”

almost come off as racist. But that said, knowing China you might be inclined to believe that they are likely to cheat but unfortunately unlike a gender test, we do not have a comparative age test that will determine a person’s exact age. Moreover, the proof of age is determined from their passports which is also in the hands of the Chinese government. But short of directly accusing them of cheating and demanding irrefutable evidence of their gymnasts’ age, other countries cannot do much. Antagonizing the ever-so-sensitive China is also something that other countries do not relish especially if much of their economy depends on them. The girls that China trains for the Olympics hail from interior provinces of the country and more often than not, their birth certificates or other forms of legal age verification documentation doesn’t exist. The United States cannot draft little young girls at an age of 3 into a gymnastics program and churn out almost-perfect gymnasts because well, they are not a totalitarian regime.

But right now, you cannot complain much about the age of Chinese gymnasts otherwise you come off as a classic case of sour grapes. If you can uncover solid evidence of falsifying age like they did for Kim Gwang Suk, a North Korean gymnast (listed as 15 for three straight years) then you’ve grounds for taking their gold away.

Update: The murmuring has apparently reached media frenzy levels. David Flumenbaum at Huffington Post shows contradicting evidence pertaining to the age of a particular Chinese gymnast. The evidence includes a China Daily article (now revised), another article from state-run news agency Xinhua, and finally an official gymnastics roster from Chengdu Province. But the only proof of age accepted by the gymnastics association is the passport which lists the gymnast’s age as 16. So it is quite easy for China to declare that the other paperwork is erroneous and no one can say anything more.

It is indeed surprising to see people hurling accusations at China for being cheaters to win medal. China uses tanks to quell student demonstrations so please stop being surprised. The age rule is stupid in the first place (no other sport has such a rule so why gymnastics?) and making passport the only way for age verification is even more stupid because nations can easily fake those. Don’t tell me you didn’t see that coming. Let’s not talk about grace in sports and such because we all are aware of the situation under which Paul Hamm of the U.S. won the individual all-round medal last time. Regardless of the ton of newspaper articles you can dig up, as long as the passport says she is 16, she is 16. Saying she doesn’t look 16 is a stupid argument as John Stewart so brilliantly put it yesterday.

“Chinese Women Gymnasts underage?” [Short URL: http://www.ipatrix.com/?p=2674] was published Wednesday, August 13th, 2008 at 4:00 pm by Patrix, filed under Sports, and tagged as age, cheating, China, gymnastics, olympics, Sports. Both comments and linkbacks are closed.

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http://elekhni.com Lekhni
A lot of the commentary on the Olympics comes across as blatantly partisan to me. What’s worse, they only show those events where the US has medal winning prospects, and they usually don’t even show the performance of the others. I saw Chinese and US gymnasts perform, but surely there were other nations also competing?
On the underage issue, granted the Chinese women may be underage and that may give them an edge. On the other hand, having competed in multiple Olympics, international events and experience in handling pressure situations should have helped the US. Yet they fell apart so easily and performed so utterly awfully.
http://maduraiveeran.wordpress.com Dinesh
Sour grapes it is, We all know how a 16 year old in US can look like as big as a 25 year old (or more?) in asia. It is just that they are not used to seeing those sizes.
http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix
Lekhni, I can understand NBC focusing on U.S. athletes only but I agree to get a better sense of competition, we need to see more than just two countries. Unfortunately, they waste so much time on stupid beach volleyball that little is left for other more interesting sports.
Regarding the underage issue, if it is proven then the Chinese gymnasts can be disqualified but I don’t buy the argument that “they look younger”. That’s simply ignorance. If U.S. has solid evidence regarding passport tampering then let’s see it but I doubt they want to antagonize China on their home turf.
Dinesh, exactly! The physical differences most people cite are stupid. If you watched Jon Stewart yesterday, he put it in a more convincing fashion.
James
It seems to me that there are two obvious sides to this coin. First, you are right, for me as an American, seeing a girl that is well under 5′ tall and 70 lbs makes me think they are children. Second, I feel that certain people lack perspective on this and would rather cry racism or sour grapes than to know the truth. If you can tell me that if I pick 20 random 15 year old girls off of the streets in China that a good percentage of them would be as tiny as these obviously pre-pubescent gymnasts are, I would be satisfied.
Finally, and this is off of the subject:
One thing that I have noticed when I watch the olympics is a complete lack of back story on the chinese athletes. When they win gold, are there parents in the stands? Do you see them go hand off their flowers to their sister? It may be just that the various news organizations covering it aren’t doing those stories but the cynic I am, I get the feeling that when China figured out that it was going to get the olympics back in 2001, they drafted children and put them into government sponsored training to the exclusion of all else. I question whether that makes these athletes amateurs at all.
If you want an example of what China will do to look good, you don’t need to look farther than the opening ceremony. Besides the fake cinematic fireworks (which I understand the reason for) and the lip syncing (which I feel a bit cheated by but I can let it go), consider that they had people training for years on the various facets of the opening ceremony. One girl even mentioned that it took her 8 months to get her flying routine perfected.
http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix
James, regarding random picking of 15 year-old girls off the streets of China to see if they are tiny is hardly the point because Chinese sports administration as you suspect does anything but random. I’m sure they deliberately choose the tiniest girls and as you mention put them through the rigors of training since childhood. Whether that is fair or not or makes the athletes amateur is something that most other nations have come to terms with including the United States. They did the drafting method long before they got the Olympics and looking at the results it is yielding them, they’ll continue to do so.
I’m no fan of the Chinese style of nurturing Olympic athletes and I rather prefer other countries follow the U.S. grassroots voluntary method. All that training and rigor followed by the Chinese seems to be acceptable to their people so I don’t see any point in us raising hell about it.
Vivek
About the coverage.. over here in Russia, the coverage seems to be quite comprehensive. They show a lot of sports where Russia is not competing, or is not considered a medal prospect. However.. after listening to the Russian commentary, DD’s commentary during Indian cricket matches sounds fair and balanced.
Regarding the underage issue, fully agree with Patrix. If there is no evidence, one just needs to shut up (and continue working behind the scenes to gather evidence, if one is personally convinced).
http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix
Vivek, I’m surprised that coverage in Russia is that comprehensive. Russians have not been performing well at all so I’m not surprised about the commentary. NBC’s commentary at times is downright pathetic and sappy. Cliches galore!
Therese Becker
I was a gymnast during Nadias years and I am angered by the fact that these Chinese girls are obviously not 16. The oldest girl may be about 16 but the smaller gymnasts are obviously NOT even close.
I do think they preformed the best however they did not do it fairly so they should not be awarded the metals for that reason.
If they had to put a team together of 16 plus aged athletes it may be a totally different outcome. We will never know!
As Bela pointed out they are under less stress.
Also no one has pointed out that when a 16 yr. old hits puberty the body goes through drastic changes making it much more difficult to perform.
Our weight, height, and flexibility all change to a great degree. A young child of 10 or 11 yrs. old are not faced with these problems.
Even the amount of floor space is affected that you perform on.
A little girl will use 2/3 the space needed to perform a routine on and are less likely to step out of bounds.
Has no one else noticed that the smallest gymnast is missing a canine tooth? Only 10 to 11 yr. olds lose these teeth. How many 16 yr. olds lose teeth? NONE!
Bob Costas seemed very uncomfortable addressing the issue. Why is the US media underplaying this, when it could be the biggest story of the Olympics next to Michael Phelps wins?
If any of our reporters did research and followed up on it, the American girls would feel better about their accomplishments. Silver is wonderful, but you can see the disappointment in their body language.
As a former gymnast that worked hard to get where I did I am so angered over this issue it makes me want to stop watching the Olympics.
We have reasons for rules.
The Olympics should be held to the highest of standards, and be checked to make sure all athletes and countries are complying.
If we let people slide on these standards it really shouldnâ€™t be called the Olympics.
http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix
Therese, we all know how younger athletes will be at an advantage but you still fail to address the main question. How will you prove Chinese gymnasts are underage? Saying they look younger is stupid because your view is colored by how typical American 16-year-olds look. The Intl Gymnastics Association only accepts passports as proof of age which in case of Chinese gymnasts says they are 16.
And if you insist on using falling teeth as an indicator, you should see what these gymnasts do. Falling teeth is just one side-effect of their routines. If you’re a gymnast, you should know. Better teeth than your neck, right?
I say, scrap the age rule. It is causing more confusion and leaving a bitter taste. But then how would U.S. have an advantage over China, right?
Patterson
I think Americans are just racist. So what if they look young! They gave you their evidence. They showed you their passport. What more do you guys want? I think if everyone can just accept the facts. then these events would just be more peaceful. The Olympics is the first time every country come together, and now there’s racism. Americans come on!!!
Louis
Please give me a break with the accusations of racism–questioning the age of any gymnast that wins a medal is fair game because the official Olympic rules state that the competitors must be at least 16 years old during the year of the competition. This rule is the same for all female gymnasts in the Olympics–if they break the rule, they should be disqualified. If you don’t like the rule, work to change it. As for the Chinese gymnasts, if any of them have baby teeth, they are no older than 14 at the oldest. Ask any dentist or parent when children lose their last baby teeth–usually by 12 or 13, occasionally 14 at the latest. A simple dental x-ray can provide conclusive proof. Case closed.
http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix
Paterson, I don’t think it is racism as much as it is sour grapes. NBC commentators continued to harp on Tyson Gay’s injury even though he emphatically said that he was 100% fit. When an athlete wins, it is a result of their hard work, dedication, and love of god; when they lose, somehow other external factors are to blame. I’m sure the athletes cope well with any loss and move on; it is the commentators who want to make a mountain out of a molehill that continue to rake up such frivolous issues.
Louis, questioning the age is fair game but how you do it is vital. Since you love the rules so much, let me remind you that appearance and state of their teeth do not figure in them. All the rules need is legal documentary evidence which the Chinese have provided. You may say, that proof is fake. Oh well, there are the Chinese, you should have thought of them when you came up with the stupid age rule. And similarly no nation is above the ‘fake papers’ charge. Many 15-16 year-old Americans would be thought of as 20 year-olds in Asia so I don’t believe in the “they look younger” argument.
I’ve seen plenty of catch-all phrases thrown around in the recent time to hide behind the racism charge although I don’t suppose this is the primary reason here but it makes me suspicious when NBC commentators cheer for a Canadian diver when the other two ranks are held by the Chinese.

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Chinese Women Gymnasts underage?

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