Desis to blame for the ban on foreign workers amendment?

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In response to this post on decision of the government to ban foreign workers from bailed out companies, a reader writes:

The biggest problem [regarding H1-B visas] with big companies, is that they are just too big and these things just pass under the radar. Most of people working here are desis, and desis won’t complain against their own managers / colleagues for practicing this, simply because it doesnt affect them. The biggest problem with big companies like (insert big tech company name here) is that there is just way too much power with managers. Once the chain of desi managers is built from VP – Director – Senior Manager – Manager, then its almost impossible to break the chain.
What’s worse is the amount of regional groupism that exists in these companies beyond these H1 issues; we have teams of 14-20 people where in every single member of the team is from one region (Read: Chennai, or Hyderabad). Team meetings are sometimes conducted in regional languages; I fail to understand how is it possible that an entire team of managers and his reportees manage to be from one geographical area from India.
Desi politics and bureaucracy rule in this part of the world – just like working in desh. If you don’t lick up to your boss, however good you may perform, you are always an underachiever – on the other hand if you are boss’s best buddy, you can sail through. Your promotion depends on “visibility” and “impressions” on other managers, not your performance. Staying late is a good sign, but not getting your work done before time.
For an average American, all this comes across as really dubious and shameful. There’s a reason why there is a developing sense of anger against Indians, especially amongst educated & qualified Americans. It has been years of such lousy behavior that has engulfed at least the Bay area, and dangers to take over the IT sector completely that is making Americans treat Indians with contempt and anger. I sometimes don’t blame them. If I were in their shoes and had to watch this kind of charade everyday at workplace, I’d ask my senator and government to stop hiring foreigners too.

I believe that this is a technology industry experience. Do any of you also working in the industry have similar experiences? What about other industries? If you think commenting can be dangerous to your employment, write to me and I will exclude all personal details, like I have done with the above email, before I share.

“Desis to blame for the ban on foreign workers amendment?” [Short URL: http://www.ipatrix.com/?p=2903] was published Thursday, March 12th, 2009 at 10:11 am by Patrix, filed under 9rules, Business, DesiPundit, Observations, Politicking, and tagged as Business, economy, government, H1B visa, immigration, stimulusm. Both comments and linkbacks are closed.

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bloghopper
You are a comment whore, aren't you :)

http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
Apart from being a stat whore, yes :) And unlike other bloggers, I have to beg for my comments.

Rhucha
Well, I have heard about similar situation from a friend who is a computer science and works with big bank. Two of my friends work in the same bank with different teams. The one who works for almost 80% Desi team with a Desi boss, is extremely miserable. No work ethics, discussing in regional languages, treating subordinates as if they are the slaves. The other one works with an international team with few American team mates. She has a completely opposite experience. Well, the moral of the story is the way Desi people behave everywhere. I am sure you have seen such similar scenes on university campus. The Desi professors are known for making your life miserable. Unfortunately, the work ethics is something we need to be taught since we are born. Speaking in regional language when other who do not understand that language is maddening. I am sure Americans who feel mad with such people have complete right to do so. I have known people still following Indian traditions of no time sense even after working in US. One of my friends used to work with a Mechanical Engineering firm and had similar experience with Indian colleagues. Group -ism, regionalism is rampant even when you come to US. I feel sorry for us. Unfortunately, few people are making it difficult for others.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
I recall even biology graduates in GSU been 'trained' by 'consultants' to work in the software industry. I admit that these cases seem to be more frequent than we like to admit and you're right about the work ethic. Although we are a hard-working people, some tend to prefer ethically dubious if not illegal shortcuts. But is it really that "few people are making it difficult for others" or is it a more widespread malaise?

http://www.ajitsrivastava.com/blog Polite Indian
I don't think the decision not to hire foreign worker is driven by the work culture embodied by the desis.
But the commenter is largely correct about desi behavior (group ism etc).
http://uberdesi.com Santosh
Unfortunately, a large section of desis do behave in the manner described above in the post and the comment and this affects the overall perception of those who do not indulge in such behavior.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
So should be instead focusing on reforming our ways or at least those that do behave in this manner before picking on the U.S. government? I know that larger implications for the U.S for such a policy is counterproductive to their economic interests.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
True that work culture doesn't affect the decision to hire foreign workers but it dents the perception that merit is the sole reason for hiring them.
bloghopper
Looking at the comments, feels like this topic is the flavor of the week on this blog :)
Why single out the desis ? I have seen the oriental people behave similarly too.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
Yup, but we aren't 'Orientals', are we? :)

Sar
I noticed one commenter who stated that Americans would be pissed with people who speak in Regional Languages. In the Indian context this usually refers to Non Hindi languages. So is this person suggesting that Americans would be OK with people talking in Hindi alone :-)

http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
Probably not and I think the problem was that even among desis, people from a region tend to band together and form cliques.

SAR
There a large majority of Indians (regardless of where they are from in India) who come to America, work hard, and succeed the right way. I think what is causing trouble is the morons who pad their resumes and get jobs through "Desi Consultants". Fraud and Deceit is integral to the success of these so called IT professionals.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
I'm not IT professional so I can't speak for them but I have known my share of good ones who are honest and hardworking. That's why I wanted to know from people in the industry how much of a problem is this.

http://exquisitely-moi.livejournal.com Sherene
Having worked in the Singapore branch of my investment bank where I had seen entire teams of desi IT guys, I can tell you that the strength of their 'regionalism' (Tamil crowd/Lucknow crowd/Kolkata bunch, etc) or even just plain 'Indianness' can scare away even the more globally-inclined desis, let alone foreigners. Around Diwali especially, I dreaded going to the IT floor because the smell of curry permeating the place and the Diwali decor hung up in the office made me feel guilty, like I was not being 'Indian' enough =/ While it is true that the H1B decision is not driven off this fact, the fact that so many Indians work in foreign countries and continue to be insulated within their own 'culture' and refuse to adopt a new work ethic makes it easier to boot the whole lot of us out of the country!
http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
many Indians work in foreign countries and continue to be insulated within their own 'culture' and refuse to adopt a new work ethic
Ah! This is a topic worth a separate post and boy! can I rant. It makes me mad. But I digress.

Sherene
Oh, we can co-rant then. Through uni, I'd been the victim of much taunting for NOT being insulated and having a life and friend circle outside of desi circles, so yes, there is much angst to be tapped there. Wish I could be as disciplined as you in translating indignation/anger/annoyance into posts!
And yes, I digress, too.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Patrix Patrix
I'm sure you can (do the translation thing) too but I just have time on my hand now. But yeah, that topic can be quite delicate. Don't want the desi blogosphere up in arms :)

http://uberdesi.com Santosh
It's the case of a few bad apples, no that these people are bad people or anything, but when we work as a mob generally our social graces stoop to the lowest denominator. I think it should be a parallel effort on educating amongst the community while fighting the anti-immigrant elements like the Lou Dobbsses of the world at the same time. I think the latter is the bigger threat but the former aint helping either.

http://uberdesi.com Santosh
Bunch of typos and grammatical errors in above comment. Note to self, do not start typing without having morning coffee :-)
http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix
As individuals, we are better but as a group, we stoop. Interesting. So what is the way out? How can you educate that lot when clearly all these years of education has not helped?

Saj
This is word by word true about all the big tech companies, desi work culture makes others run away. Big companies ignore it, as they get tons of desis to work like slaves with nothing else to do in life. The CEOs are all lieing when they talk of shortage of "skilled manpower", what they mean is shortage of slaves, bonded labour with promise of GC etc.
http://poomanam.blogspot.com/ silverine
This happens in India too!! My friend's company recently passed a rule that Managers of a particular state/community/caste cannot have more then two people of the same state/community/caste in his team!

http://www.ipatrix.com Patrix
Even if we get people from different state/community/caste, we’ll have people fraternizing based on their apartment complexes :)

http://www.xanindia.com xanindia
Equal treatment should always be number one in a workplace. No matter what race, religion, country, a worker should be treated humanely. I can't think of any reasons why inequality is very rampant when in fact we are all humans. "sigh".
http://poomanam.blogspot.com/ silverine
LOL!!!

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Desis to blame for the ban on foreign workers amendment?

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