Nerve Endings Firing Away

I don’t get your logic. u read a few comments by some IIPM students and you think all the graduates from the college are the same..they are not worthy of existing on this planet just cause they are not so bright academically and made a wrong choice of institute.

Charu, I am glad we all are with Gaurav and Rashmi on this one.

Sanghamitra, I know it hurts! That was my instant first reaction to the news. Too bad some students get grouped together with the other bad apples. Cost of being generalized, I guess. I made no reference to their academic achievements, just their social etiquette. Don’t look for reason in this rant; its an emotional one and purely my own.

Rashmi, I hope JAM gets out of this jam safe and sound. Don’t forget to holler if you need any help.

So Jam has been issued a notice? I hope Jam keeps us posted on the developments and yes, my resources may not be great but please do holler if you need any help.

With you all the way!…

Nikhil, I saw your response. Such pseudo bloggers/intellectuals should be dealt with appropriately. And don’t get me started about that DesiHowardRoark…OMG! I wouldn’t be caught within a mile of the wannabe.

Mridula, of course. Thanks for mentioning it on your blog. Lets support JAM wholeheartedly.

Srini, actually I had a copy. Someone sent it to me but I haven’t read it yet. I plan to trash it now.

Varna, Would love it if you make a mention of the IIPM blog wars on your blog too.

So have you got the legal notice by now or not Patrix?

Andrew, why do IIPM adertise full page and IIMs do not? If an institute was providing such wonderful placements students must be falling over each-other to join it. Why advertise, or why bother what bloggers say. Tomorrow, if I write something about IIT Kanpur, the guys there are not going to bat an eyelid, as my words will have no meaning, their reputation speaks for itself. It can’t be threatened by a blogger or even a Mag. Why is IIPM so bothered?

Dear Andrew,

I work for the Washington Times. Just saw your post. Quite articulate and explanatory. Why didn’t IIPM itself give out this clarification in the first place instead of allowing things to come to this?

Frankly, till the time I read your post, I was believing the other side. It’s only when I’ve read both your posts that I feel Ms. Rashmi Bansal, who does seem credible as a journalist, seems to have made a mistake this time.

Again frankly, I do believe that no journalist has any personal agenda behind any article. Ms. Rashmi seems to have made an inadvertent mistake and she would not have any issues apologizing for the same. I, of course, am being presumptious about the issue but this happens in the US all the time. In our Kansas beat, I have had at least seven middle to senior journalists who have made factual errors and have openly come out with it.

But then again, my viewpoint is that the independence of journalistic reporting should not be curtailed. Journalists have the right to report to public. At the same time, (my personal opinion and not the Washington Post’s), I believe the article that has been written by Ms. Rashmi Bansal, does not stick to journalistic standards. It is not about whether IIPM is right or she is right; it is about the fact that the article should have been substantiated with hard facts rather than third-party unidentifiable statements.

Almost throughout the article of Ms. Rashmi Bansal, I find (except one direct quote), all statements made by so-called students who Ms. Rashmi refuses to identify. And especially after reading your reply to her article, it seems it was not Ms. Bansal but one of her journalists who might have erred on the side of inexperience.

But like I said, for journalists, freedom of speech is of utmost importance; Ms. Rashmi Bansal’s freedom of speech should not be curtailed ever. But she should necessarily stick to journalistic ethics (like you mention), which she clearly has not stuck to.

Katheryn Connelly
Washington Post
34 West, Nuway Avenue
Kansas City

Tried to look the address 34 West, Nuway Avenue, Kansas City. Couldnt !
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=34+West,+Nuway+Avenue,+Kansas+City&hl=en

I am tired of counting fake commentators !

Andrew, the majority of claims made by IIPM adverts come from one source Business Baron. Why?

Andy from Washigton Post has just one post on its blog and that is not very articulate. Let me see if we can report this to the Washington Post. Will you?

Andrew read this if you want, I have first hand experience of one of these places. Though of course I cannot name them for obvious reasons.

http://traveltalesfromindia.blogspot.com/2005/10/third-time-lucky-warning-this-is-long.html

I did not understand your logic about advertising. IIMs do not advertise, they issue admission notice.

Is it not better just to have one campus and do justice to it rather than expand in haste and then advertise, advertise and advertise?

I am not at all trying to say that students are not bright at other campuses. They very well are, and in India there are just too few good institutes to do the majority a justice, private sector can play a huge role, but are they doing so?

And what do you say about the unwanted attack in Rashmi’s comment box? It that IIPM worthy behavior?

I am not aware of the IITK story but will try to find it out.

Oops, Andy is from Washington Times and not Post! My apologies. So surprising that I have not seen anyone from BBC here yet!

hi mridula,
of course, presumptions are what blogs are made of; and presumptions are what might rule all comments. but it comes as no surprise, because the rhetoric tone in various statements will always be perhaps blind to the facts one might wish to be blind to, and dream up the figures one might wish to dream up. but then, of course, these are blogs and we all are the invisible judges, and you and I can imagine up whatever we might want to. that’s just what the doc ordered, didn’t he? but let me not go the debateful way (phew, what wrong english), lest one should be accused of professor arindam chaudhuri not even being able to teach one’s (one’s??!!?) students english (wasn’t english with a capital e)(hey, don’t rant, get on with it, these guys are serious;;;; as serious as they can get; didn’t you see how much importance they paid to the words you wrote;;;;; didn’t you also notice how you got accused of all the posts that seem suspicicious;;;;; but of course, you must be guilty boy, because you must be kateryn, of course you must be; otherwise how could anything wrong in this universe occur; it must be you. but then is this andy the same andy who wrote earlier? is he? well, like you mentioned to her, these are blogs and we are all judges, aren’t we?) (i apologize for the rantings as they are but an outcome of the irritation one gets at reading unlettered comments. but then, how presumptious of me now? how can i call comments unlettered even without providing clarifications?)

Enough of the rantings, and dear mridula, let’s handle your queries as much as possible

1. your first query: “Andrew, the majority of claims made by IIPM adverts come from one source Business Baron. Why?”

good question. cleverly asked, but wrongly put, i should say (man, this word “should” needs to be thrown out of my vocab). but then, that’s how i’ve noticed many queries on the net. your question has the word “majority of claims”. if i were to request you to calculate the percentage of space devoted in a typical iipm advertisement to the business barons source (and to the business today source too please), you would realise that the percentage space is less than 1.3% (you won’t believe it, i actually calculated it). if you were to say that 1.3% space devoted to a ranking given by business barons is “majority of claims”, i should (again “should”, kill me) say that your query is misrepresented.

2. your second query: “Andy from Washigton Post has just one post on its blog and that is not very articulate. Let me see if we can report this to the Washington Post. Will you?”

mridula, i seriously couldn’t understand this statement of yours (and i mean seriously). i tried to make out what you’ve written but failed. do please reieterate

3. your third query: “Andrew read this if you want, I have first hand experience of one of these places. Though of course I cannot name them for obvious reasons.
http://traveltalesfromindia.blogspot.com/2005/10/third-time-lucky-warning-this-is-long.html”

mridula, i read the post; it’s lovely. i can guarantee it won’t be iipm at all. because then you would know who i am. i mean, you could ask any iipm student in delhi and bangalore who andy is and they’ll tell you. anyway, your post seems very genuine. you could join iipm if you wish to.

4. your fourth query: “I did not understand your logic about advertising. IIMs do not advertise, they issue admission notice”

very true mridula, iims do not advertise. they issue admission notices in newspapers all over india. but you could call it whatever. two for each iim for each for their management programmes throughout the year; one more for each iim’s fellowship programme. that makes it three for each iim. there are six iims in all (or have we reached seven?). if one were to multiply six into three, one would reach the factor of 18 advertisements (sorry, admission notices) released by all the iims all across the country. add to it the agriculture post graduate programme of iim ahmedabad, apart from the pgdca (computer applications) programme of iim calcutta, apart from the part time evening mba programme of iim calcutta, and you would reach 21 advertisements. to be on safe ground, i am not adding the 25 odd additional advertisements released by iims for their management development programmes (i guess economic times, referred to by ms. rashmi bansal, might have the exact figures; though i am completely on baseless grounds in this economic times reference).

5. your fifth query: “Is it not better just to have one campus and do justice to it rather than expand in haste and then advertise, advertise and advertise?”

iipm was set up in 1973 (or was it 1972 as the first page of the prospectus claims? i don’t know but i’ve noticed this discrepancy in our ads and our prospectus) it’s 33 years in then (32 if one considers 1973). if 33 years is not enough time to have seven campuses, then please please please tell me how much more time would not be considered as haste? dear mridula, the indian government seems to be a master of that already, what with their amazingly myopic attempts to expand management education to the public. in fact, i have referred to the fact that in one of our faculty’s posts, he has praised the iims as being benchmarks for management education and has criticised the fact that such benchmark management education is not being made available to the public by the government. if one is afraid that salaries of top notch mbas would fall down if more people are given management education, then one has a very myopic viewpoint to save the benefits being given to such a small bunch of people. wasn’t education all about ensuring that intellectual benefits reach the masses?

6. your sixth query mridula: “I am not at all trying to say that students are not bright at other campuses. They very well are, and in India there are just too few good institutes to do the majority a justice, private sector can play a huge role, but are they doing so?”

mridula, the private sector is “trying” to play a role; but are of course curtailed by various structural issues. one of them is the issue of licensing. Where the government was supposed to provide an agency that could support, rate, and rank various technical institutions, the aicte (all india council for technical education) has proven itself to be incompetent on all fronts. not only has aicte been accused of bribe taking throughout the past decade, aicte has also been accused of giving licenses to one room apartment business schools, with just a handful of faculty, with no infrastructure etc. it is hilarious that aicte, which itself is headed by non-mba bureaucrats, has not even been taken to task by any governmental committee. to that extent, some blogs seem very credible as they take aicte to task also. another issue is ranking; with so many magazines ranking so many institutes, the ranking methodologies are not only becoming murkier and murkier, but are also extremely non-transparent. i know for sure of the case between c-fore and us wherein c-fore, which does research for the best b-school survey of outlook, also has a web site for which they demand ads from the very b-schools they rank. you might argue that this happens in magazines also wherein outlook also asks money from b-schools for the issue where they are running the b-school survey. but the killing fact is that in the case of outlook, there is a clear demarcation within the editorial and the people who belong to the advertising department. in the case of c-fore, which is outlook’s research agency for the survey, the owner of c-fore, mr. premchand palety, who leads the b-school research project, himself goes to various institutes demanding that the b-schools should pay him money so that he can put up their ads on his web site. mridula, if this is not a clear basis for fraud in b-school ranking, what else could be? the astonishing part is that rashmi bansal very clearly knows this part of the story, but chooses to look the other way because the same mr. palety has given her part-time journalist some comments on the article. this is what i call utterly one-sided reporting. but anyway, your question was about the private sector, and i can say that if the aicte is staffed with more competent personnel, and the government is able to convince b-schools about the credibility of such an institution, there is no reason why large institutions like iipm would not go the full hog in supporting the legacy of such an institution.

7. your sevent query mridula: “And what do you say about the unwanted attack in Rashmi’s comment box? It that IIPM worthy behavior?”

my answer would start with the second part of your question. how can you be so presumptious that those were iipm students or faculty who did it? it could as well have been rashmi’s own people (presumptions of me too, i agree). iipm had served her a legal notice; and suddenly, one day, the world gets to know that her blog has bad comments about her. i find it very strange because when the iipm administration has chosen to be so formal about this whole issue throughout – and even kept students informed so very regularly (one of the reasons you don’t find any real students commenting stupidly) – how is it that suddenly, one day, all hell breaks loose. i find it very strange that bloggers throughout are so presumptious about the identity of the wrong posts. in one of the posts i wrote to patrix, i wrote very clearly that it is hilarious to see the following three points being shoved on iipm’s character. (a) all bad posts against rashmi must be the handywork of iipm students and faculty (b) all good posts for iipm must be silly attempts by iipm henchmen to quickly post good stuff (c) all iipm faculty and administration has for the past 33 years taken all students and their parents for a royal ride.

i find everything so presumptious; and that is why i decided to answer the second part of your question first, where you asked, “is it IIPM worthy behaviour?” I ask, “is it Rashmi Bansal worthy behaviour?” or better, “is it mridula worthy behaviour?” because frankly, all you have to do is understand the fact that if we did not post anything for the past so many months since rashmi’s article had come out, why in heavens would we do that now? on the other hand, rashmi surely had a reason to start doing that as she would have received a long court notice in the recent past. but again, we both could keep on jumping to conclusions without reaching a logical end.

8. your eighth point: “I am not aware of the IITK story but will try to find it out”

mridula, the wonder of it is that even IIT Kharagpur was involved. In IIT Kgp, the center was known as CEP. But again, the outside body whom they had involved was the same, EL-NET. You can ask any faculty in either IIT K or IIT Kgp how both these institutes got caught in the scam and then tried to mobilize media. to my earlier reply, i have now added two more points; one is of the iims that got hassled when media started reporting on why the education minister should be allowed to take over the iims and make them reduce their fees. the other was when the Common Admission Test for all iims was coolly leaked by some source within iims (as claimed by media). in both these cases, iims also got very hassled and suffered a major image blow. imagine the number of people in the past years who would have got into the iims after having got hold of the cat papers. but then, one might have the argument that even if the people got into the iims, they wouldn’t have been able to get out as the exams in iims are too tough. if you were to analyse the number of people failed in all the iims, the only iim throughout india that fails its students in the first year is iim calcultta. there is no other iim that actually allows students to fail. but anyway, this is taking the debate to another direction. all i am saying is that even iims and iits get rankled by illogical media reporting.

best wishes and regards,
andy
p.s: yawn, going to sleep now, my hands are paining, if only i had had a verbal translator or some stuff like that… good night…

Andy:
“the only iim throughout india that fails its students in the first year is iim calcultta. there is no other iim that actually allows students to fail.”

While quite well researched, let me blow one bit of your theory to pieces. Maybe you might wish to call up the IIMs before posting this. Seriously. Ask any IIM friends. If not, repost and you shall gladly get the list. Maybe you could ask Rashmi for starters.

“one is of the iims that got hassled when media started reporting on why the education minister should be allowed to take over the iims and make them reduce their fees.”
You might wish to examine the meetings that were held, the transcripts/minutes and then post. Any institute which has remained almost sovereign would fight for its freedom, would it not? Speaking of reducing fees, even you would want IIPM to reduce its fees, no? (I presume you’re an IIPM student from your other posts)

OTOH, well written. Almost feel like agreeing with point #7!

and point 6 is only alluding to wrongdoing. Rest, you’re presuming alot of stuff brother.

Point 4 is way off the mark. Maybe you might wish to check WordWeb for some definitions:
- Notice: An announcement containing information about a future event
- Advertisement: A public promotion of some product or service
Cmon dude, how the hell can anyone confuse an admission notice with those full page “Dare to think beyond the IIMs” campaign. Dude, just because IIPM is your institute doesn’t mean you have to justify each point.

and by the way, no personal details because unlike you Andy, I have to work for my placements. You sure seem to have alot of time to reply at length. Maybe you can manage your time, others can’t. Does IIPM offer short time management courses? :-P

Patrix, one last time.

Quoting Andy:

“mridula, i read the post; it’s lovely. i can guarantee it won’t be iipm at all. because then you would know who i am. i mean, you could ask any iipm student in delhi and bangalore who andy is and they’ll tell you. anyway, your post seems very genuine. you could join iipm if you wish to.”

Thanks for the kind words on the post but since when did IIPM (assuming you are from IIPM) started making offers to people over the net?

I thought I saw some such thing but was too sleepy at that time to reply properly.

“Dude, just because IIPM is your institute doesn’t mean you have to justify each point.”

Let him go da :p

Think, if he doesn’t respond to each point, who will???
Coz the bloddy insti isn’t out here posting clarifications now, is it?

nothing wrong in advertising an institution in the newspapers. lot of self financing colleges do that. but posting false stats should be condoned.

Please read this about the director of IIPM. It is a lesson in humility being ground to the ground. Has anyone seen this guy in real life?

http://www.iipm.edu/director-background.html

there are three sides to very story ! they are your, mine and the truth. keeping this in mind i’am open to perceptions. believe me as i’m an ex student in their pg batch, we have awesome external and internal faculty drawn from the best professionals around. people like prof. shubo s bhattacherjee, prof. a. sandeep and prof. navin chamoli are people who really do facilitate and deliver excellent material to ideate and implement in projects based on information which can linger for a lifetime. And there are loads of them in iipm.
the fault lies to an extent with the students, the reason for this is most of them got into the institute simply because they had no where to go. while students appearing for cat have a vision and goal before joining a b-school, most of the students who join iipm have none cause they are from business families and they don’t even apply for placements. a small % of students really do know what their goal is and work towards it. in the industry you can find iipm people who are doing really well. creativity is stressed on in iipm, as well as loads of case study to sharpen one’s perception and abilities. personally i remember a batchmate from bihar who knew about 18 english words only when he joined, when we completed our course the same guy was one of the best presenter. there may be flaws in the institute but ultimately people from iipm with excellent skillsets really contribute for the organisation they are placed in, many are entreptreuners too. the industry acknowledges this and therefore they pick up people from iipm. Also planman is one of the best consultant firm in india. all this hue and cry will stop if you do a search and track down iipm’s ex- students working in the industry.
every one will agree that iipm is one of the most successful branding campaign in india. their brand equity is awesome. the people(students) who are focused do achieve their goal and are very successful in their careers.
you would also agree that this spat could ruin the lives of those serious stubents who have invested a lot of money,energy and time to achieve their goals.yeah we did have divergent views from time to time but iipm is not arindam choudhry only, organisation are based on people and iipm have some of the best people in management education. Oh yes i did enjoy my time there as well as learn many aspects of live and laterally use them. thats all.

You know whats funny, AC once sent my publication a letter pretending to be Deepak Parekh of HDFC about our B-School rankings. It was the most hilarious thing ever! Anyway, with media picking up the story it won’t be dying down anytime soon.

I suggest we Google bomb them. Those of you who post to high-volume websites like Slashdot.org may consider linking to the IIPM website in your signs with inflamatory words in the link.

a few posts on Slashdot and they’ll be screwed with nothing they can do!

Ye Kya Ho Raha Hai Bhai!!!

Kyon meri pol khol rahe ho…badi mehanat se fraud kar kar ke to maine apne insti ki thodi bahut izzat banae ki koshish ke hai…kyon mujhe defame kar rahe ho (mana mein isi layak hun)…Badi mushkil se maine blair ke saath adobe photoshop pe photo designer se banwai thi uska payment bhi abhi nahin kiya hai kyonki jis bank ki check hai wo bhi IIPM ki tarah fraud hai… kyon mujhe kangal karne pe tule ho. waise hi apni kitabon ko best sellar banane ke liye main kud hi saari ki saari kharid chuka hun, ab to choti mein tel lagane ke paise bhi nahin hai…

Kabh kabhi mera Zameer mujhe bolta hai ki khul ke saamne aa jaon but bachpan ka sapna tha ki bade hoke PHAMOUS banoonga isliye apne aap ko is moha maya se bacha nahin pata…
Badnam bhi hue to kya hua naam to hua…
ARINDAM FRAUDERY

I feel a strange sense of peace and tranquility reading about the IIPM exposure in India.

A few years back, a friend of mine returned from India (I am based in north america) with a book by Arindam Chaudhry…”Count your chickens…” or some such inane title and told me that this was the happening Indian management guru. I opened the book and almost threw up. Filth. Stench-filled filth. Moronic dilletantish crap. Does this guy have any education whatsoever? Forget academic education, was he given ANY ed by those who brought him up (well, now it makes sense what kind of education he was given, considering his dad was the guru training the son in fake management guru-dom)

Kudos to all bloggers who exposed this fake guru.