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As I have not seen the movie yet, I cannot make a judgment call but it certainly seemed that behind all Moore’s blustering, he was making more sense than Gupta. I did read Moore’s response to Gupta’s fisking and was convinced on many aspects. Essentially, both are talking about the same facts and are simply interpreting it differently. Like for e.g. when Gupta cites shorter wait times in the United States, Moore responds that if you take out 47 million [uninsured] people out of the line, the wait times are definitely going to be shorter. Gupta’s interpretation that health care in other countries that Moore cites is not technically free since they pay higher taxes. In response, Moore cites higher premiums, deductibles, and unreliability of coverage that counts as hidden costs that Americans pay for similar health services. But as any sane person understands, these health services in other countries are just as free as fire and police protection services are free in most countries.
In all the ruckus of nitpicking and blame-game, we forget the underlying assumption in the United States that health care still isn’t considered as basic right or amenity for citizens. Fire, rescue, and police protection, education, and pension [social security] are some of the ‘free’ services because no one sends you a bill after you have availed of these services and almost everyone is aware that you pay for these through taxes. If universal health care is called ’socialized medicine’, why isn’t public education called ’socialized education’ and ridiculed in Presidential debate? I am not for or against universal health care because I don’t think there is one silver-bullet solution for the health care mess in the United States. At least everyone seems to agree that it is a problem just as illegal immigration is but hardly anyone seems to offer or work out a solution that might change the status quo.
But before you even attempt a solution, the basic question of whether we consider health care as a citizen right should be answered. Education is provided ‘free’ because of perceived social benefits so does health care lead to similar benefits? If yes, then at least some measure of health care should be provided to the citizens. Insurance need not be eliminated entirely just as private schools exist in spite of universal availability of free public education. I recently finished reading The Undercover Economist and Tim Harford has offered a middle-ground solution for resolving the health issue. It appeals to the conservative mindsets as well as the moralistic liberal minds (although some details need to be tweaked to avoid gaming).
Finally, I do consider CNN’s decision to fisk a movie when there are far more important issues especially in the political arena that deserves attention. I don’t think the content was influenced or directed by pharma companies but they certainly started out with a premise to poke holes and constructed several strawman arguments. Incidentally, their tag line for the show - Keeping Them Honest - is directly relevant to any Bush Administration dealing right now. Unfortunately, we don’t see similar fisking there. But in the light of ridiculousness of Lou Dobbs, inanity of Larry King, and the irritating voice of Wolf ‘Situation Room’ Blitzer, I have given up on CNN and am lately watching MSNBC. If they too disappoint, I’m going to swear off mainstream media.
by Patrix | on Monday, July 16th, 2007 at 2:03 pm | 
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July 16th, 2007 at 3:39 pm reply
Patrix: I think I read CNN’s side of the story and I have to lean towards them. I felt indignant after seeing his other movies, but this one seems very fishy even to the liberal me.
Boing Boing and/or /. had a post up where they linked to CNN’s official statement regarding their fracas with Moore. Apparently they did some fact checking of their own and found that when Moore does his comparisons, he chooses numbers from different years to illustrate his differences.
Their contention is that Moore used US numbers from a report from one year to compare it with numbers for Cuba from a different year. CNN agrees that the there is still a difference if the same year was considered, but the difference is much more substantial in Moore’s “study” because of the different years chosen.
Also today’s there was another link that fisked Moore’s claim that he donated money anonymously (so why crow about it now) to keep his worst critic’s website running when the said critic was facing the choice of running that anti-Moore website or using the money to treat his wife’s cancer. Apparently not only did Moore donate money two months after the fact that the critic was having fiscal issues, but that the hate site’s readers had already pooled in money to keep it running. Apparently the shortage of money was because the web host’s owner had cheated all his customers and the guy had to move to another host and start afresh with a fresh account.
I will post relevant links this evening after I get my hands on them again.
July 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm reply
This is the CNN’s response to Moore. I think CNN’s being logical in asking these questions.
This is the second link that I promised.
It was not too much trouble after all :)
July 16th, 2007 at 3:52 pm reply
Of course there’s another main reason why the “argument from taxes” does not make sense (Larry King dismissed it by saying “That’s a different issue”…unfortunately it’s related) and that’s the fact that all the taxes are being spent on money-sucking inanities like the Iraq war. So of course there’s not going to be enough money for health care. People like Sanjay Gupta who rightly say that health care in countries like France is not “free” should realise that in those countries, taxes are actually spent on health care.
And CNN and especially Larry King have truly lost it…did you see the edition a couple of days ago where he invited three “experts” for the “60th anniversary” of the “UFO government coverup” in Roswell, NM?? While interviewing Paris Hilton is a big waste of time, this is plain weird. O the hilarity, and then the depression. Count me into th e gang of CNN-dissenters.
July 16th, 2007 at 4:27 pm reply
Anti, I had read through the links earlier but still lean toward Moore. I don’t necessarily advocate his style of anecdotal evidence-based documentaries but he raises important issues that CNN never addresses. Instead they get bogged down in trivial issues like, the difference isn’t much, etc.
The comparisons with Cuba frankly are redundant as they are ranked close to each other. The U.S should be compared with other developed nations and when we do so, they fall woefully short. In the end, CNN and Moore end up with similar conclusions that health care in the U.S. sucks; only difference being few numbers here and there.
Talking about investigative reporting, CNN or any other network could have easily done Moore’s job i.e. if they wanted to but I’ll ascribe this to ratings-driven reporting that ends up with Paris on an exclusive with Larry King.
Ashutosh, isn’t it surprising that the administration that swears by fiscal conservatism now heads up the biggest government and the largest deficit? To make it worse, whatever government they are heading isn’t half as efficient and functionary as it was earlier.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:35 am reply
Patrix: I do agree that CNN’s ratings driven and all that, but I still think that in this case, Moore is cleverly trying to pass a tattered rag full of holes as a pashmina shawl.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:54 pm reply
We are talking of primary education here, and not college education. That’s an important distinction.
July 17th, 2007 at 1:15 pm reply
Healthcare system in this country is a total mess. It really did not require a documentary to bring out its pitfalls. Its pretty evident, really :D. So I dont really know what CNN was trying to get at hehe.
I like Moore, though I had watched one of his TV episodes of yester years before he became a full time movie documentary maker, and he had an episode about India which had me appalled. Since then I take his views with a grain of salt, but they are fun nevertheless :)
July 17th, 2007 at 2:29 pm reply
Anti, I guess we have to agree to disagree. And am not sure Moore is trying to offer a solution but in fact, just highlight the state of health care that is driven entirely by profit. I don’t see making profit as a bad thing but as I mentioned in my post, this country would have to make a moral judgment on whether it considers health care as a inalienable right just as education.
Confused, yup! I never said anything about higher education. But the U.S. doesn’t offer primary health care for free either, right? Read Tim Harford’s solution where he emphasizes on insurance for expensive and infrequent procedures.
Supremus, of course! Moore isn’t the gold standard in political thought or even progressive politics but he certainly knows how to rile up the (white) elephant in the room.
July 18th, 2007 at 9:48 pm reply
Top 10 Reasons why CNN is better than the BBC World Service:
10) We can afford James Earl Jones to read our tagline. So there BBC!!
9) Graphics! You call those graphics!! Heck, we spend more on our graphics than you spend on your whole show!!! Shows what you get when you allow commercials to run half the time.
8) Larry King - I learn so much from that man!
7) BBC files stories from Mauritius and Mali and stupid countries like that that don’t even exist.
6) No crane shots in studio.
5) Who cares about the climate in Cambodia. Do they even *have* climate in Cambodia?
4) I like commercials. They’re almost as slick as the news itself!!
3) The BBC calls people “communist” or “socialist” like it’s some kind of sociopolitical viewpoint, instead of the evil mark of the beast we all know it to be. Who writes the copy at the BBC anyhow? Might it be… SATAN!!!
2) They talk too much. It hurts my head. I like my news short and snappy!
1) SHE IS TOO NEWS!!! AND HER CHIHUAHUA TOO!!!