If you're new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed or email alerts. Thanks for visiting!
My post titled, Are we headed the right way? raised few protests and I feel that I owe a little explanation because some of my remarks were extrapolated and misunderstood. I guess, I wasn’t clear enough and as I read my post again, it tended to mix personal rants with generic ones. I do not believe that my remarks are rooted in a superior NRI mentality that comes from staying in a much more comfortable environs or higher standard of living.
The other day, I made it clear to my parents that it is highly likely that I may never move back to Panvel because I have grown to value the quality of life that I live in. By a higher standard of living, I refuse to live in a city where I have to witness overflowing drains, pitiable conditions of roads, absence of a minimal level of social life, and lack of intelligentsia.
Sadly, Panvel seems to lack almost all that I wish for in a satisfying living experience. Of course, I can be assured of above average income level thanks to my dad’s contacts and supporting network and infrastructure but then, where do I spend that money at? Panvel has gone from bad to worse and the housing society I lived in is a mad chaotic mess of buildings built in a hurry before the basic infrastructure was put in place. As a result, it is no longer safe to live in otherwise decent neighborhood. Our home has two
added levels of barbed wires and pointed iron arrows to keep out intruders and sadly it resembles Fort Knox now. Of course, these feelings hurt my parents a little but they do not think twice before blaming my thoughts on me living in America. My other comments regards need for privacy and my dad’s attitude are personal in nature and I have already said enough; so no more comments on them.
Now the above was a personal rant and provides only anecdotal evidence for the glut of development that plagues urban India today (admittedly, it also cannot be generalized). Also, it isn’t a US-India comparison but in fact simply a matter of personal preference for living. I was equally saddened by rapid urban development without scant regard for environmental concerns. My dad blames everything on rampant corruption that has permeated all levels of governance in India and I don’t think that is too far from the
truth, is it? Of course, there are more malls and everyone is spending more but are we simply confusing our fascination with consumerism with development? I was talking with Dina yesterday and we talked about the immense potential that India has and we are simply been stifled by poor governance and misplaced priorities. The divide is greater than ever; even within the urban areas. Of course, there are greater opportunities but has that resulted in a more mature society? Maybe but we aren’t quite there yet. Why are we engaging in fruitless comparisons with China and not concentrating on the tremendous potential and capacity of our multi-cultural society? We are trying to build Shanghai and only are ending up with Shen (dung) in ghai (hurry) [those who know Marathi will understand that better]. As Mohan Bharghava said in Swades, we aren’t a great country yet but certainly have the potential to be one. Let us not get caught up in premature celebration.
I probably am not that accomplished a writer that I can pen down my exact thoughts and feelings but I’ll try to elaborate as more questions are raised and I managed to answer them myself first.
by Patrix | on Thursday, December 22nd, 2005 at 12:00 pm | 
World Wide Web . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Both comments and pings are currently closed.
December 22nd, 2005 at 1:56 pm reply
You are an acomplished writer and you do manage to bring your thoughts pretty clearly most of the times. Hence I personally feel the few protests were well warranted in this case.
If you feel like you can change things with your expert knowledge and think that your dad is there to back you up financially, I wonder what is stopping you. If you don’t want to, then it’s a moot point.
December 22nd, 2005 at 2:24 pm reply
Hey Patrix,
First of all, I think you are entitled to your opinions, and whether you chose to stay anywhere is simply your choice. That saying, I would like to say a few words on your post, if you would permit. Forgive me, if this turns out to be a long post.
As you quote - “As Mohan Bharghava said in Swades, we aren’t a great country yet but certainly have the potential to be one. Let us not get caught up in premature celebration.”
But we also remember Mohan Bharghava coming back to his country and try to do his bet - he doesnt do much, but whatever he does makes a difference. I think its fairly easy for everyone of us who stay outside India, 6000 miles away, to point out everything that’s wrong about India, especially when we are in India - its nothing to with NRI mentality or anything. The important part is, what are we doing about it other than complain? Frankly nothing.
So, I find it justified that people living back in India look at us and say - “NRI mentality - always complaining” - yes, because, frankly we dont really do anything. We complain about lack enviornmental planning in our cities, pollution, blah blah and so on, but really what did we do about it? Did we try to talk to authorities about it? Did anyone of us try to contact ministry and complain about it?
At best, we blogged about it - shrugged our shoulders and said - “India mein kuch nahi ho saktha”. However that is not to be confused with patriotism; We are all patriotic - even you, whether you return to India or not, are patriotic and have a feel for your country; Else you wouldnt be explaining your stand again in your blog.
You want India to succeed and realize its a country of immense potential; but as rest of us (and that is myself included), we dont want to be the ones who will take India further :). Give us our country on a golden plate, we will glad take it; If its a aluminium plate - nahh, we will wait for it.
I had a long debate with other ppl in other groups about the exact phenomena - and one of the persons rightly pointed out; at the end of it all, most people back home are happy - so why are people living outside complaining :)
But yes, as you said, its a personal choice of where one wants to live and one wants to be happy; There may be a thousand reasons why many of us may not go back; those who of us who do, need just one reason :)
Good post - I hope you didnt mind my long rant…
Suyog
PS: whatsup with desipundit.com - is it down? I havent been able to access the site since morning; all I get back is that server seems to be in high load message on firefox.
December 22nd, 2005 at 2:33 pm reply
Suyog,
Let us assume there is one such guy who fits your “ideal” bill. Now what?
December 22nd, 2005 at 2:39 pm reply
I am sorry, Nilu, I didnt get your question. Would you elaborate a bit further by what you wanted to ask?
Thanks a lot!!
Cheers,
Suyog
December 22nd, 2005 at 3:23 pm reply
Patrix,
I for one think that Patriotism is overvalued. I find it amusing when people accuse those who prefer to get out as abandoning the country. I totally understand why you would not want to move back. It is after all a consumers market and all of us are on the lookout for the best deal that we can get.
That is certainly not the reason behind my post. Rather, I was angry because you mentioned “So many stories of India Shining and I almost believed them.” Reading that sentence, the message that I get is that India is definitely not shining. I was angry because you took the extreme view and seemed to suggest that there had been absolutely no development in the last few years. I was angry because you were trying to make your point based on your extremely limited observations in a span of a few days.
India is not just the town of Panvel.
I agree that ultimately every small area should be developed for India to be called a developed nation, but we are still not there yet. As I already mentioned in my post, we are trying to change. It maybe not be at the speed that all of us would like, but we are still trying (and I use the royal we though I am not there now).
And as to why we engage in premature celebrations, I guess that is one way of keeping up the sagging spirits and encouraging people on, rather than putting them down with endless stories of misery day in and day out which they are anyway already pretty much aware of.
I know that it is extremely immature to be angry at what are your own personal observations, Sorry for taking up too much space in the comment box.
December 22nd, 2005 at 4:04 pm reply
Patrix, I am a regular reader of your blog, and I really enjoy it very much. But,your rants did reek of a superior NRI mentality. I dont really blame the protesters for their responses.
I dont think your remarks were misunderstood at all and I too was very upset reading your post. The tone of was filled with disdain and the remarks about your friends absolutely disrespectful. Do you in all seriousness really believe that people living in India are there because of their fate ? Please, grant them some common sense - it might be their own wish to stay back.
There are many people in India striving to make India shinning. You are not one of them and if you cannot acknowledge their efforts at least do not be so condescending.
Anyway, it is your blog and your rant. Hope you enjoy the remaining vacation.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:07 pm reply
Patrix, you made a post detailing your personal observations on returning home and stated your opinion about the development of India with a tone of disappointment and regret. [Its your blog, I dont see why you dont get to call it as it is.] Fact of the matter is, people have the right to be offended by waht you say, just as they have the right to be elated and hail you as their saviour. But I cant help disagreeing with some of the reasons people have given for criticising your last post. If anything, in my eyes you are more patriotic than others, for you are not so blinded by your love for your country that you are unable to see its flaws and weaknesses. True love for your country entails recognising it for what it is, and working towards improvement. Having experiencesd different cultures and different lifestyles, NRIs can provide helpful feedback and information that might point India in the right direction of where its ultimate detination should be, and contributing in a concrete manner would definitely help india get their faster. However, its unfair to pounce on you with the argument that you shouldnt complain if you’re not willing to work towards it yourself. Fact of the matter is, you have the right to your opinion about what’s right and wrong with India, just like they have the right to their opinion about what’s right and wrong with your opinion. Im ready to listen to any other points people might raise about why its unfair to criticise India the way you did, but saying ‘you cant complain cos u wont contribute’ is not a valid argument. Which adult over 40 have you never heard complaining about Politics in India? Yet not even 1 out of 100 of them run for any position of authority, even as insignificant as the Chairperson of the Building Society? Patrix has the fundamental right to Freedom of Speech, the beauty of which is that he can state his opinion about any matter in the world, whether or not it afects him, and whether or not he plans to do anythin about it. If anyone has valid arguments about why his last post was an unfair criticism of India, I’d genuinely love to hear them.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:20 pm reply
Patrix,
Looks like you have pissed off quite a few people. And c’mon Panvel isnt that bad. Agreed, that its congested but then we have a billion people what do you expect.
When I tell people that I am leaving US, most of them say “ohh good, Please start all the services available in the US” and break out into a list of things. So everyone is looking for a free lunch. The much mentioned NRI mentaility speaks out loud saying - US has all the comforts so let me be here and when India has all those things, I can just move there until then I am free to bitch about India.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:24 pm reply
Ankita,
1) Hepful feedback is one thing, but damnation is a different thing altogether.
2) Though in this post Patrix puts disclaimers about not generalizing, he did exactly that in his initial post.
3) As you pointed out initially, people have a right to argue with Patrix as much as he has the right of Freedom of speech, after all that is why he has the comments abled.
We, or atleast I am just trying to show Patrix that there is a different way and thof looking at things and that his disappointment and regret may be too premature.
This is not a personal attack on Patrix, but just a different perspective.
December 22nd, 2005 at 5:37 pm reply
Hey Ankita,
Please dont get me freedom of speech. Your whole arguement about freedom of speech is just a cover up. And you said “True love for your country entails recognising it for what it is” - I am guessing your not in India.
Also, you say NRIs can provide feedback. Frankly, do you really think people in India dont know what’s wrong with the country that they live in?
December 22nd, 2005 at 6:59 pm reply
All this talk of this being a “personal rant”, “freedom of speech”, “contributions to the betterment a la Swades” is all fine. I think what was missing from both the posts was the concern for what is happening. In stead, it had a lot of anger. It had a sense of aloofness. That of, I don’t belong here. This was disturbing for me. Whether you stay in the US or India in the end does not and will not matter.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:26 am reply
I think even though Patrix is not coming back to India, his (group) website Desipundit did a lot for the country by taking up on, hmm, you know on IIPM. And I am sure there are many more such things to come if need be. Am I right Patrix?
Then, even though I live in India, I can see the problems with my place all the more clearly. Do I need to point it out? We all read newspapers. Still, things are changing and I feel it can only get better.
And then whether Patrix comes back or not is the main issue for him and his family. In a country of a billion a few people here and there are not going to make a difference. We do not lack talent within the population that lives in India, whatever else we may lack.
So those who do not want to come back should not come back, in my opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:04 am reply
It’s true, the fact that We are free to make our own choices and decisions in life, which is very important to us and I believe that free will is a marvellous thing when used positively. But i guess, the way you put isnt the right way to express it. :) Because, you’re still disconnected with the life you used to have a few years ago. Time is the enemy.
Sometimes, We are forced to allign with the rules of the
social institutions. It’s true.
But Through learning what it involves, and perhaps pondering the why’s. You need to establish that connection with the world you havent been in touch for more than 6 years. Why that connection is useful or important I cannot rationalize in completeness, but you should value it. I bet, these must have been difficult confessions for you. But You’re being honest about it, and that’s something i totally adore.
Perhaps all these thoughts mean nothing more than that you are accepting an identity as an Indian in America, rather than just as an Indian who is returning to India. I’m sure, you like coming back home, to your parents home. So even if they don’t have the kind of life or lifestyle that you’d like for them to have, it shouldn’t bother you. I feel that if you were here, you’d be able to easily achieve the lifestyle you wanted! Your parents or the people around, not being that way doesn’t indicate anything about India or your ability to not have it in the Indian context. Just that they are different from what you’ve become. You’re still in sync with Georgia/Texas So i guess that’s the reason which’s not allowing you to accept the things as they are. Your city still accepts you, you are on ur way to rediscovering it. I’m sure you will NOT ramble yourself too much in a few days to come.
I do believe in India shining. What works for the U.S. will not necessarily work for India in a multitude of fields. But, What we want/expect out of ‘India shining fuss’ when we return back, isn’t just going to happen spontaneously, you have to first have a government that cares. Also, i agree with alpha, If you don’t want to do anything for the betterment of our country, then it’s a moot point. Shades of pointless i would say! Bcos, i know we have potential and someday, we’re going to go way ahead than others. I think, you should enjoy being Indian again, being mumbaikar in your own way.
You should do your part, to think less and *be* more. that way, you are sure to enjoy your indianness in India.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.”
- Einstein :D
but in the end, everyone has a courage to disagree and the courage to believe in oneself. Im not saying you have done a wrong job by writing it down.. but.. well.. I’m THE Indian pride and going strong since 1988. :D
Anyways, Back to my naked protein juice and Studies.
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:07 am reply
phew. I just realised, that WAS LONG!!!
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:07 am reply
Dear Havoc, you seem to hear things people do not say. Resident Indians know better than anyone else the state of the country they live in, but may not be as acutely aware as NRIs of how people in other countries live (this is of course a generalisation subject to exceptions, such as people who lived abroad but moved back home - full on swades style). Admiteddly NRIs have less of a right to moan and groan about the nation because they only have to put up with its shortcomings for the few weeks they return home on holiday. However, as I said before, I think that non-residential indians are as indian as anyone else and have the right to contribute to its progress - since they dont live in india and dont know it as well as residential indians, they should do what they can do best - inform you of what we CAN do and where we could direct ourselves.
PS: I didnt see the connection between my opinion on patriotism and my residential status.
PPS: In reply to your query, I am in fact an NRI and have been for the past two years. Again, no disrespct intended, but I dont see how that makes it okay to waive off my opinion.
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:18 am reply
Dear Dreamweaver,
1) I did not think Patrix’s post was one of damnation, but more of a strong criticism. However I fully appreciate that this is just a difference of opinion - we both have the right to perceive his post as we like.
2)I agree that in his first post Patrix may have slipped from specific criticisms of Panvel to a larger generalisation of India. That was unfair, but Patrix has made a new post apologising, so the matter is at rest.
3)I still stand by my view of Freedom of speech. People have the right to argue with Patrix as much as they want. If you read my previous comment carefully you will see that I am quite pleased to hear any other arguments against his post. I disagreed with one fundamental point of people saying he should not complain bcos he is an NRI and could not contribute. Other than that, people who have presented valid logical arguments have gained nothing but my respect.
Good man for trying to present a new perspective!
December 23rd, 2005 at 2:31 am reply
Hmm, interesting debate going on here.
I agree that Patrix has the right to express his views as he wishes, it being his personal opinion. Again, the rest of you have the same right to point out the flaws in his opinion.
But, some of you have taken umbrage at his personal comments regarding friends and family. That’s his personal life, and I’m sure a lot of us personal bloggers rant a helluva lot more than that.
Also, the first thing that struck me when I read Patrix’s earlier post and the responses, was that some of you advocated tolerance as being important, as being the backbone of Indian life. I personally think tolerance is one of the most over-rated virtues, and the “It’s like this only here” statement the most depressing. We should in no way put up with the poorer aspects of living ! I know that resident Indians see their country’s progress better than NRIs, but there’s still a long way to go, and simply accepting one’s situation as untenable is unacceptable. I think NRIs, having experienced a better way of life, can see the potential for the country much more.
And I don’t think it’s right to criticize people for their decision to stay in India or outside. There are personal circumstances surrounding every person’s decision, and outsiders cannot be the judge of that.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:36 am reply
Ash,
Accepting Tolerance or not accepting it, is more of a personal thing. If you think, It’s like this only here” is the most depressing thing to hear, then don’t you think you should do something to change that scenario rather than just being whiny about the whole fuss?
You say, We should in no way put up with the poorer aspects of living, but currently thats the way it is! But, if you’re saying it at a personal level, then that would be the most selfish thing to do. for your own comfort and luxury, you’re going to chuck out the poorer aspects of living in India without actually contributing anything for the betterment of the Indian Society or rather neglecting the main aspects of the poor scenario of India shining today.
I agree, it still has a long way to go but what you expect out of India isnt gonna happen overnight. That’s just s’thing that will not happen spontaneously. You say that NRIs have experienced a better way of life.. i agree. But, comparing the standard of living of two different countries is wrong. As i said earlier, What works for the U.S. will not necessarily work for India in a multitude of fields. India is still in the process. It’s a constant struggle. we all have to fight for it. We cannot neglect the drawbacks behind this situation in India today. The real problem is population and corruption. That’s not an easy thing to get rid of instantly. It’s going to take time. But, I believe that education, at least tech education is being stepped up as a natural process and more people have access to higher education now than before. It may still be slower compared to population growth, but a general trend towards education and exposure spawns good things for all classes. I think education will go a ways to abate the first. It’s more of a social thing. just saying that, we shudnt put up with the poorer aspects of living, aint gonna make things any better.
To say today that the lower classes, working poor or unemployed poor are still where they were 20 or 40 years ago is a little short sighted. Sure, the differences are more vast now and more stark, but I believe that the middle class is growing. There will always be a bottom layer and their situation will look worse as the middle and upper classes grow, but I believe that the bottom layer is shrinking as a percentage. It may be growing as an absolute only because of population growth. I would even hazard the outrageous suggestion that if India had the population density (to land and resources) of the United States, even with our corruption, we would attain a better distribution of wealth, and better emotional and economic lives for all by comparison.
But you See, things are changing and I feel it can only get better.
So i guess, its wayyy easier to say We should in no way put up with the poorer aspects of living ! We shouldnt deny the opportunities available for us today in India(whatever it may be). All i feel is we shouldnt paint a hopeless picture. The main trick is to see opportunities available to better the situation.
PS: Forgive me if you thought i was being rude and pointless about what i wrote. apologies.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:21 am reply
Excellent discussion all around and I hope it remains as civil as it has been so far. I am on a measly dialup connection right now (not complaining)so I’ll respond to everyone sometime later tonight.
December 23rd, 2005 at 4:55 am reply
Aashlesha, I think you may have misunderstood what Ash tried to say in her comment. She in no way advocated ignoring the problems in India because she didnt want to improve them. She in fact meant the very opposite - when she said “We should in no way put up with the poorer aspects of living” she meant that we should not simply accept the situation as it is and give up on trying to improve it. I agree with her completely on that point - Dissatisfaction is the greatest spur to progress. When we are faced with bad roads, poor water supply, lacking infrastructure or detrimental social customs, we cannot say it is like this only here and forget about it. I think that what Ash suggested in her comment was that we should not simply stomach the shortcomings of our nation and ignore them but instead work towards improving them.
December 23rd, 2005 at 5:15 am reply
Aashlesha, I appreciate your thoughts and comments.
Exactly why do you think that we’re not planning to contribute in our own way ? Do you know what our future career path or plans are ? The problem with this whole ‘NRI’ debate is that people are quick to assume the worst of NRIs and their commitment to the country. It is difficult enough for every one of us (resident or non) to balance our personal ambition with our desire to improve our country/society, without having all and sundry damn us for our decisions.
Nobody’s trying to deny the progress of the country or the improvements. I just think, that NRIs having lived in different/better environments, have a fresher perspective; and have a different idea of the kind of lifestyle India can aspire to. They hold to a higher ideal, have a better dream of all that India can be. Why is that a bad thing ?
December 23rd, 2005 at 7:06 am reply
Ankita -
she meant that we should not simply accept the situation as it is and give up on trying to improve it. I agree with her completely on that point - Dissatisfaction is the greatest spur to progress. When we are faced with bad roads, poor water supply, lacking infrastructure or detrimental social customs, we cannot say it is like this only here and forget about it. I think that what Ash suggested in her comment was that we should not simply stomach the shortcomings of our nation and ignore them but instead work towards improving them.
All well said in good faith - but that is exactly my point in the post - we as NRIs (I have been in US since 5 years now), what are we doing about it? We didnt improve the situation - we just looked for a greener pasture :) At the very least, ppl living in India are paying taxes and contributing money to development, however slow or fast it is. At best, we and I mean NRIs are cribbing about it.
Ash -
They hold to a higher ideal, have a better dream of all that India can be. Why is that a bad thing ?
Its a great thing - even I have great dreams that India will one day rule the world. Good. Great. So what I am doing about it to make India better right now? Do I pay taxes to Indian govt for development projects? Have I involved myself in any other NGO projects in India sitting here - I am sure there are millions, but have I? I would love to know how many NRIs and out of country residents are doing something constructive for their country - is somebody sponsoring a girl child’s education for her life because they earn more in US?
Everyone has the right to complain about their country - and everyone here has a right to their position; but pleassssse (request to all of us), dont get into NRI’s have more perspective, and so are patriotic and more knowledgeable and more caring towards the country.
Suyog
December 23rd, 2005 at 7:17 am reply
Having lived away i find that it is easy to be lulled into a sense of detachment when one returns to India. The dynamic nature of India requires a lot from an individual- first of all to just deal with daily life- and if one wants to change anything- even more. However - a sense of patriotism and love for ones country does exist in most people- and it often inspires an attempt to make some contribution- but the truth Patrix- life in the West makes people a tad complacent- lazy and in a sense incompetent to really push ones limits and make things happen. I dont know at what stage you are - but I am sure you have a bit of all this- and the initial days back stir up huge controversy in ones soul. This has been an interesting post/discussion to read- and I i am sure it helps you clarify as well as make the experience more enjoyable. After all- vehement exchange from the westerners tends to be limited to small intelligent pockets.
December 23rd, 2005 at 7:40 am reply
Dear Suyog, nobody has claimed that NRIs are more patriotic or knowledgable about India or its progress - all I think is that we bring a different perspective to the picture. To be honest, this whole debate began because Patrix slipped into a few generalisations in his first post, but we ourselves while holding this discussion are slipping into generalisations.
Why assume NRIs contribute less than residential Indians. There are always the exceptions of resident rascals who illegally escape paying taxes and beloved politicians who eat the money we give them, and then there are NRIs such as an uncle of mine who received an Ivy League education upto phD and decided to return home to do social service work in Orissa. Just to prove that a lot depends on circumstances, let me explain that when I lived in India, as recently as two years ago, my Mum and Dad were so busy trying to make sure we had enough for a decent living that they didnt have time to worry about the state of the country. Now that we live abroad and my Dad enjoys a better job, he not only benefits personally by being able to offer his children better opportunities and support his aging parents better, but he now is also able to help people around him better by sponsoring a girl child, making more donations to NGOs and doing simple things like tipping the maids at the houses/hotels he stays at more generously.
I know this is one case in a million but all I’m saying is that its unfair to generalise and pain all NRIs as heartless selfish people who do not care for their country. We all do the best we can with the most we have. For some of us, moving abroad enables us to help our country better. For others, staying at home provides us with the best opportunities to contribute to its progress.
December 23rd, 2005 at 7:48 am reply
before my comment has you up in arms - i will clarify- that perhaps none of it applies to you- and perhaps some of it does- it is just one more viewpoint from an NRI who returns frequently- and suffers tremendous turmoil in the mind when dealing with her country.
December 23rd, 2005 at 10:30 am reply
came here to congratulate you patrix and saw a whole eddy! dont know the context so shant jump in, but for whatever its worth, people outgrow their home places..whether its a country or the old ancestral village. go out see more things, experience new things and then the old ones look a tad faded and ugly. that might have contributed to the disillusionment?
anyways many congrats ..jumped here from ashs post.
December 23rd, 2005 at 11:15 am reply
OK. I’m not writing much about the ‘NRI’ fuss at this moment. I’m putting it aside for a while. I shall write about it, when i have more time on my hands, mostly later tonight.
The whole fuss is about ‘Lack of possessions versus poverty’ as far as, Indian Economy is Concerned.
I had a few discussions with my non-indian friends, and their observation is that Indians don’t live in poverty but in simplicity and that there is a joy of life and simple pleasures despite the lack of material stuff. This, contrasted with the western or American first world goal of plenty of conveniences, amenities, facilities and possessions. I’m very pleased to hear that. they feel ‘that disconnection’ between the two. That might again raise a few questions and arguments. And ofcourse it is no way connected with the heated up disccusions going out here. But, i was just too thrilled to know that they have come to these conclusions based on their experiences in India.
December 23rd, 2005 at 11:28 am reply
Patrix,
Go ahead and complain about the measely dial up connection in your house, just don’t extrapolate it to the whole nation and conclude that internet in India is nonexistant;)
Is there no broadband provider in Panvel?…seems a good business idea:)
December 23rd, 2005 at 11:36 am reply
I wish I can address each one of you here but I guess the argument has gone off in different directions. I admit that my generalization with Panvel’s shortcomings to the rest of India may have been mistaken and I think I made that clear. Also, Ankita has managed to put forward my thoughts and arguments quite succinctly so I shall not repeat them.
Most of you have simply assumed that just because I reside outside India, I have no right to criticize. I wonder how would you react if this rant was written by a resident Indian. Asking me to come back to improve conditions here in India doesn’t exactly answer my question. It is like Ganguly asking you to bat for India when you criticize the way he plays. In spite of making it clear that this isn’t a “I hate India” rant but instead just pointing out some flaws that we could do without. The chalta hai attitude, tolerance for inefficiency, reliance on patriotic sentiments to explain away everything, lack of a coherent voice for accountability, are just some of them. Of course, things are changing. i had the good fortune of venturing outside India and comparing two cultures and if I can offer few hints about how we could improve or what we lack; I don’t think that is justification to hang me.
The discussion has gone off in a completely different direction now…exploring the spiritual side of India and stuff, which wasn’t my intention at all. I never compared instead asked for a better living experience according to certain standards that I think are conducive for healthy and fruitful living.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:05 pm reply
I am sorry I had to say this:
“…instead just pointing out some flaws that we could do without. The chalta hai attitude, tolerance for inefficiency, reliance on patriotic sentiments to explain away everything, lack of a coherent voice for accountability, are just some of them.”
Are you saying that while you were in India all these years, you never saw these problems? And you never wished for a change as well? Is that only after living 4-5 years in US you started seeing above problems in India? Gimme a break - there is nothing new in what you observed back this time; But it seems as if you wished for a change after living in another country for a couple of years, and benefitting the lack of them. I think thats quite sad, because it tells me you were ready to live with the situation you were in, as long as you were in India (or rather forced to), but the moment you lived elsewhere, you feel the country could do without it.
I am sorry, I won’t add anything further here, because I think you too have elected to crib & sit back without offering anything constructive ideas to solve the problems in India.
If you do have ideas, I would request you to please do put up a post on it - you are a popular and a well respected blogger - With the gaining power of blogs, blog journalsim, and media, who knows some of your ideas may actually be featured in Indian Media, and mayhaps, one of them might be implemented as well. You never know. Or the alternative to complain as everyone else does seem more exciting?
Thanks,
Suyog
PS: I am sorry if I sound rude here, but I think that people like you with who have so much respect and knowing in the blogosphere should be offering constructive ideas & solutions to problems rather than just point the obvious.
December 23rd, 2005 at 1:38 pm reply
Suyog, I have had these complaints ever since I learnt to think; I just didn’t blog back then. I don’t also see why am I expected to come up with solutions for the problems I point out because most of them are attitudinal problems.if you haven’t read it before, my blog has offered analytical insights to more than one problem and I cannot be accused of being just a ranter. While on the subject, if you are so obsessed about solutions, I don’t see you offering any. You are simply complaining about me complaining. That’s even worse.
Yes, you did sound rude so this is going to be my last response to your comment. Try sticking to the argument without getting personal.
December 23rd, 2005 at 3:45 pm reply
Hey Patrix,
Looking back at my last comment, albeit after a couple of hours, I do feel that I have been unnecessarily rude to you; I do get carried away in debates, especially involving desh (and not the first time, honestly, either). I apologize for my behavior and my comments on your post completely. I hope there are no hard feelings, and we can agree to disagree on many issues.
I do hope to explore more of what you have to say on your various blogs; I think my reactions may have been a little premature to this post, and its entirely my fault to be judgemental about you. My apologies again.
Cheers!!
Suyog
December 24th, 2005 at 12:16 am reply
No harm done, Suyog. Apology accepted.
December 25th, 2005 at 5:05 am reply
Because It Is Your Motherland And All That?
Ive been looking at Patrixs posts (1, 2) on the state of the development in India, and the kind of comments the posts have been getting. There has been no trolling as yet, but the attitude of those who are expressing dissent is something…
December 25th, 2005 at 11:51 am reply
I think Mridula has put it perfectly. India DOES NOT need those who do not want to go back to india.
After taking world class education at “rock bottom” costs in the IITs and IIMs and other such prestegious institions- made possible by Indians of all walks of life including the millions of thong-clad countrymen- if NRIs are hesistant to go back because life style is poor and other ‘genuine’ concerns such as, say, public kissing is not allowed,
They MUST NOT go back. NEVER. You DITCHERS, India DOES NOT need you.
Whether it is the personal opinion of the author of this blog or common view among the NRIs DOES NOT MATTER.
Resident Indians will make India what they want it to be.
Whether you believe it or not, India does shine and will continue to shine more such that your grandchildren will make a beeline for India.
- Raajk.
(an NRSI- non resident south indian)
December 25th, 2005 at 6:55 pm reply
I love this topic. Im confused.
Every person I have known has no intention on returning- everyone is well settled, has a house, a car etc.
I read most of the comments and found a few things jarring: Few people not returning dont make a difference (Swades as most of you know is loosely based on a true story where only a few people actually made a difference)
I think the question is not about few people making the difference or not but more on where life is better, the money is better, the weather, comfort…..these are attractions to anyone…. perhaps people returning make the decision for moral reasons more than anything else…and who ever knows what morality is right? :-)
December 25th, 2005 at 9:10 pm reply
Patrix,
Loved the topic.
“i had the good fortune of venturing outside India and comparing two cultures and if I can offer few hints about how we could improve or what we lack; I don’t think that is justification to hang me”.
However, I dont see you offer any hints. Was this just an empty rant ?
December 25th, 2005 at 10:22 pm reply
Looks like quoting Mohan Bhargav from Swades proved suicidal. Now everyone wants you to become one Mohan and come back to India and change a bit :)
Ok..on a lighter note, for Mohan, his another [perhaps greater ;-)] pull Gita, was firmly attached to Indian soil..in your case, you do not have that compulsion with Ash :)
December 25th, 2005 at 11:53 pm reply
I happened on here just by now, having realized perhaps too late that you, Patrix, may be somewhere in my ‘hood. Never mind.
I found it difficult to agree with: Admiteddly NRIs have less of a right to moan and groan about the nation because they only have to put up with its shortcomings for the few weeks they return home on holiday.
Why less of a right? I travelled in TN after the tsunami, and returned twice during the year; each time I found much that got me despressed and angry. Do I have less of a right to say something about it because I don’t live in TN? I travelled to Pune on holiday for two days in August and found some of the roads simply putrid. Do I have less of a right to say something about that because I don’t live in Pune?
I also found it difficult to agree with: NRIs … have a fresher perspective … a different idea of the kind of lifestyle India can aspire to. They hold to a higher ideal, have a better dream of all that India can be.
A “higher ideal”, Ash? A “better dream”? I dream of an India where justice is swift and sure, where no child is uneducated, where all Indians have access to the best health care in the world. I’m not alone, there are plenty of us who live here who have those dreams. Do NRIs (and I was one myself for ten years) have a “higher ideal” than that, a “better dream”, and if so what is it?
I also found it difficult to agree with: life in the West makes people a tad complacent- lazy and in a sense incompetent to really push ones limits and make things happen.
Where did that come from? Some of my friends in the States are the brightest, hardest-working people I know. It’s because they push their limits that they have achieved great things. “A tad complacent”?
And finally, I found it difficult to agree with: Indians don’t live in poverty but in simplicity and that there is a joy of life and simple pleasures despite the lack of material stuff.
I know Indians who have more material stuff than they could ever have had in the West, sleeker and newer cars, plenty of help to run their homes. These are not some tiny minority either. Where is this “simplicity”? Not that I have any problem with material wealth or the like: I just cannot agree with this “we Indians are content with so much less and you Westerners want material wealth.” It’s demonstrably untrue.
December 26th, 2005 at 1:42 am reply
This species called NRI can be quite fascinating to observe, especially when any of the members needs to take a decision on returning home.
I usually find that the decision is taken first; the justification is provided later. Confirmation bias at work.
Thus, the NRI who has made up his mind to stay back in the USA, will compare the positives of USA ( clean roads, higher quality of life, freedom enjoyed by the academia, etc) vs the negatives of India ( no roads,power cuts, too much Govt interference in academic activities, etc). USA will naturally look better.
The NRI who is hellbent on coming back will compare the negatives of USA ( absence of family support, schools becoming increasingly unsafe, danger of kids taking to drugs) with the positives of India ( family network, old world values, etc). India will suddenly look a better place.
Such decisions are always taken emotionally and then defended rationally. I don’t blame Patrix for doing the same thing.
December 26th, 2005 at 2:17 am reply
Dilip, you’re right about the fact that people like you who are actively involved in working for the country ( for that matter even all the normal people who have big dreams for our country), know the ground realities better and can better visualize India’s future.
The point I made earlier was in response to all those people who said that NRIs don’t know what they’re talking about and preached tolerance and blind acceptance as the answer. My point was that sometimes those living within a ‘bad’ situation will dream of change in a different way from those who’ve seen how life can be better in other countries (and who obviously hope for the same for their countrymen).
I think plus ultra hit the jackpot with his comment. Decisions to stay abroad or come back are always emotional. Where can I give my kids a better lifestyle ? Where can I earn money enough to support my parents ? Where can I give my family roots ? etc
We each have different answers to those questions, and those form the basis of our decisions.
It may come across as being selfish that these questions are always about I, me, us etc and don’t have anything to do with the country, but if we put aside all our morals and idealistic talk, and examine our own lives carefully, the reality is that we often make decisions with our heart and then rationalize it afterwards. As Rk pointed out on a humorous note, Mohan Bharagava may not have returned if Gita and Kaveriamma had gone back with him to the US …
December 26th, 2005 at 2:18 am reply
Regarding the comparison in lifestyle, there are various facets to it which makes things very complicated. There are certain things which you take for granted in the US and they turn out to be a luxury in India( reliable power, air conditioning…etc). There are some other things that you take for granted in India, but it is a pain in the neck out here in the west( dhobi, personalized services…..). But the most important thing about India is the fact that most people living in the US still have friends and family there. So you miss the Diwalis and Holis and Navratris and try to indulge yourself in the bland Thanksgiving and Christmas celebrations. You miss going to weddings of your cousins and live many aspects of you life over the webcam.
These are the things that money cant buy and that is the primary pull that the homeland has. For eveything else, of course you have your card!!! :(
December 26th, 2005 at 6:23 am reply
you’re right about the fact that people like you who are actively involved in working for the country … know the ground realities better and can better visualize India’s future.
Ash, how do I put this? This was not what I was getting at at all and therefore that “you’re right” is not right.
I have no illusions about “knowing the ground realities better” or “better visualizing India’s future.” I learn new realities about India every day, that show me how little I do know.
I have a vision of what India can be, because it is the kind of future I’d like to live in and for my kids to grow up in. I think it is possible, but I don’t believe it will come about — because other people have quite different visions of our future.
So all I’m saying is this: let’s not assume that any of us have the right prescription for India, because that’s a sure prescription for disillusionment.
December 26th, 2005 at 8:43 am reply
Dilip D, You Rock!!! :D
December 26th, 2005 at 10:54 am reply
Raajk, Thanks for making me laugh but must warn you, you have issues that you need to get attention for.
Bloghopper, I’ll need another post for the solutions but mostly I was ranting against attitude and broad policies that requires bottom-up and top-down changes respectively.
December 26th, 2005 at 12:33 pm reply
One thing is for sure
even if people r so called Patriotic or not, they have a lot of time to discuss patritotism.
lage raho, lage raho yaroon.
December 26th, 2005 at 10:10 pm reply
I never said or assummed that there’s no issue…silly.
My opinion is simple:
Constructive criticism of India, YESSS.
Contempt. NOOOO. HELL.
That’s it.